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PolyWorks Discussion => Inspector => Topic started by: admsteck on March 17, 2009, 11:10:54 AM

Title: Flatness around a hole
Post by: admsteck on March 17, 2009, 11:10:54 AM
What would be the best way to measure the flatness around a hole?  We have a 13mm hole in a stamped sheet metal part with a 26mm diameter plane around the hole called out with a 0.3mm flatness tolerance.  I have tried several different methods and get different results.  I am just wondering what the correct/most accurate method would be.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Flatness around a hole
Post by: GoBeavs on March 18, 2009, 07:01:36 AM
My first thought would be to create a plane using the pick, then fit option.  This would snap the plan to the circular area.  Then I would just use the flatness GD&T option in the Feature Controls window to determine the flattness. 

Are you familiar with these procedures? Or was the question a bit more complicated than this?
Title: Re: Flatness around a hole
Post by: admsteck on March 18, 2009, 08:28:58 AM
Here is the process I was using:
- Select the hole I would like to measure flatness around.
- From the menu, select / data points / compared to primative
- Enter (diameter of flatness area - diameter of hole) / 2 for the max distance (for example, if the hole diameter is 13 and the desired flatness area is 26, enter 6.5)
- This should highlight all the points within the flatness area.
- Create a plane using the fit / fit to elements method using the best fit option.

The problem is that I get differing results depending on if "Reject Outliers" is selected or not.  Should I be using reject outliers?  Should I use max or min instead of best fit?  Or would it be more accurate to compare data to reference for the selected area and view the min and max errors? 
Title: Re: Flatness around a hole
Post by: Firefly on March 18, 2009, 01:10:46 PM
I agree with GoBeavs, the only way to get the correct measurements would be GD&T, cause normally you need the Tschebicheff fitting methods (not sure if I got the name right...). If you use GD&T in PolyWorks the original points for creating the plane are used for a complete refitting of the parallel min/max planes.

Do you need another idea to get the right points for starting GD&T?
Title: Re: Flatness around a hole
Post by: admsteck on March 18, 2009, 04:16:22 PM
I am using GD&T to get the flatness, but I get different values when I use different options to create the plane (reject outliers, best fit, min, max, etc....)  What are the best settings to use to create the plane after I select all the points I wish to use?
Title: Re: Flatness around a hole
Post by: Firefly on March 18, 2009, 10:37:55 PM
The Best Fit, Min or Max are using exactly the same points, so the GD&T measurement is also the same. Best-Fit with reject outliers turned on reduces the points - so you get a 'better' result  ;D

I would suggest to take a look at the smoothness of the scan data - if there are no outliers (from reflections or something) I would not use it, if the data is very rough I would turn it on. And I would turn it on if the normal result is out if tolerance  ;D
Title: Re: Flatness around a hole
Post by: Admin on April 14, 2009, 09:12:20 AM
Quote from: admsteck on March 18, 2009, 04:16:22 PM
I am using GD&T to get the flatness, but I get different values when I use different options to create the plane (reject outliers, best fit, min, max, etc....)  What are the best settings to use to create the plane after I select all the points I wish to use?

admsteck, did you come to any conclusion or is it just going to remain a judgment call on the situation?

Can I change the icon for this topic from a ? to  :)
Title: Re: Flatness around a hole
Post by: PW User on April 20, 2009, 01:51:49 PM
Quote from: Firefly on March 18, 2009, 10:37:55 PM
The Best Fit, Min or Max are using exactly the same points, so the GD&T measurement is also the same. Best-Fit with reject outliers turned on reduces the points - so you get a 'better' result  ;D

I would suggest to take a look at the smoothness of the scan data - if there are no outliers (from reflections or something) I would not use it, if the data is very rough I would turn it on. And I would turn it on if the normal result is out if tolerance  ;D


The flatness (and all GD&T controls) will be computed on all points kept for the fit of the feature. So if you check on the "Reject Outliers", it will change the GD&T result.

In my opinion, it is best to do GD&T on a Polygonal model instead of a point cloud. When you use the latter, you add to the real result the noise of the scan. with a polygonal model, you remove that scanner noise. Furthermore, if you restrain the max angle to a smaller value like 20 degrees, it will also remove the edged of the area.

Good luck!